PDF Version

July 15th, 2025

Re: Addressing False Rational for Divestment of Camp Otter Lake QC

Scouts Canada

Camp Otter Lake QC

Property Committee

328 Rue Ryan, 

Gatineau, Québec

J8P 3B6

Perry.Schippers@scouts.ca

ScouterPerry01@gmail.com

T: 613-612-1199

To : The Board of Governors, Scouts Canada

Cc:  The Asset Advisory Committee Chair, The National Properties Key 3

Attachment: Request for Reconsideration: Divestment Recommendation for Camp Otter Lake QC (pdf)

Dear Esteemed Members of the Board of Governors, 

I want to address the rational the Asset Advisory Committee has now given to the Board of Governors for divestment of Camp Otter Lake QC. First of all, the entire camp Property Committee and I completely disagrees with all of the reasons they have given for divesting Camp Otter Lake QC! I will address each of the provided reasons one at a time in the following paragraphs. Subsequent to that, I will address the previous reasons the Asset Advisory Committee provided to the Camp Property Committee that they told us was the reasons being sent to the Board of Governors.

The following are the reasons provided for the divestment of Camp Otter Lake QC:

1. a) Exceeds drive-time, and b) Small membership within 90 minutes:

   1. Within the defined 90-minute drive time are the following population centres that have Scouting Groups:

      1. Ottawa

      2. Nepean

      3. Kanata

      4. Carp

      5. Stitsville

      6. Renfrew

      7. Arnprior

      8. Deep River

      9. Pembroke

      10. Petawawa

      11. Gatineau

      12. Aylmer

      13. Chelsea

      14. Wakefield

2. In addition, Camp Otter Lake has Scout Groups from the following population centres using the camp:

   1. Orleans

   2. Rockland

   3. La Chute

   4. Montreal

3. Also, in addition to Scouts Canada Scouting Groups, the following organizations and 3rd Parties also use the camp:

   1. Girl Guides of Canada

   2. Les Guides du Quebec

   3. Les Scouts

   4. For a Wedding

   5. La Maison Des Jeunes Du Pontiac

2. No utilities: In June 2023 the National Properties Key 3 Committee approved the installation of electricity to the camp’s facilities! This is only 75-90% complete as the camp needs to provide the Electrician the Camp’s Quebec Enterprise Number (QEN) to get Hydro Québec to connect camp to the power grid. The QEN can be obtained within a week and for about $100. The issue is that the Title holder of Camp Otter Lake QC is the Ontario Incorporated Body (OIB), who is not willing to register the camp for the QEN. A Committee consisting of the OIB Director, the Chair of the Property Committee, and a representative of the National Properties Directorate worked on this, and it was decided that Camp Otter Lake QC should be transferred to the Quebec Property Society as it already has the other properties in Quebec registered with QENs. We were in the process of making the transfer happen when the Asset Advisory Committee started to review the properties in Ontario.
   
   It needs to be understood that all of the projects (capital and otherwise) that the Property Committee has proposed already had the funds saved for them. When Camp Otter Lake QC was transferred from under Voyageur Council to the National Properties directorate the property had over $44,000 in its account. $30,000 of this was specifically identified for Projects to improve Camp Otter Lake QC. The $14,000 was for operational related activities. For instance, we had allocated $6,000 to an Emergency Fund in the event of something causing the camp to close for a while, funds were allocated for specific projects, and funds were allocated to the operational budget to cover the required maintenance and compliance items for the coming year – this way funds were available at the start of the year!
   
   

3. High Deferred Maintenance: This is extremely shocking as we are unaware of any deferred maintenance!!!  The camp has maintained a maintenance plan and schedule for many years. There are a three (3) maintenance items that we have not done yet because of time and resources availability. The three (3) maintenance items are:
   
   

   1. Paint the Cabin interior: We had paint donated a couple of years ago, four 5-gallon pails. The reason the cabin has not been painted is because we want to:
      
      

      1. Complete the electricity installation first, and

      2. Have a plan for what to do about all the memorabilia that Scout Groups have put on the walls and ceiling over the decades since it was last painted. There is stuff going back to the early 1990’s. This is something that has always been permitted at the camp. 

      3. Have a plan or way to allow Groups to continue to leave memorabilia of their stays. FYI – we do have a couple of options identified.

   2. Replace the old Privies/Kybos: There are three (3) wooden Kybos that we have scheduled to replace within the next 3 years. The cost of this is going to be minimal as the property has at least 75% of the materials required to construct new larger units.
      
      

   3. Tipi Cover Replacement: This is more of a project as while we had discussed the erection of the tipi with the local Indigenous community leader. The original cover was made from heavy duty tarp. We plan to fundraise to get a heavy-duty canvas like cover to replace the current one!
      
      

4. No organizational support from property societies: This is shocking as until the Asset Advisory Committee started reviewing the Ontario properties the Camp Otter Lake QC Property Committee has had an excellent working relationship with the OIB going back to at least 2013!
   
   

5. Small membership within 90 minutes: Please refer to the response provided in #1 for the ‘Small membership’ within 90 minutes!

The material that we were provided and that we based our original response on is attached to this document. The Property Committee’s original response was based on addressing the information presented in these two attachments. The following is extracted from one of the attachments:

II. Immediate Divestments 

This proposal recommends the immediate full divestment of eight underperforming or non-strategic camps—Green Bay, Legewade, Otter Lake (Quebec), Marwick, Mitchel, Mohawk, Shegardeno, and Charl’Bro—as well as two urban Scout Halls in Kitchener and Peterborough. These properties have been identified as offering limited program value, low usage, or high maintenance risk, and their divestment will free up resources for reinvestment in higher-impact sites.

I would like to raise three (3) important points for consideration:

1. All projects, capital and otherwise already had the funds saved for them! For instance, the proposal the 3 Capital Projects the National Properties Key 3 approved in June 2023 specified that the funds for the projects were to come from Camp Otter Lake QC’s $30,000 projects fund. One of the National Properties Operations Manager’s had confirmed multiple times for me that the funds were there and available.
   
   

2. Any and all projects that the Camp’s Property Committee submitted to the National Properties Operations Manager and shared with the Chair of the Asset Advisory Committee explicitly stated the projects are conditional on fundraising the required funds for each project.  These were submitted after the National Properties Operations Manager encouraged us to submit possible projects, thinking big, because there apparently was a good chance money would becoming available for properties to invest.
   
   

3. Camp Otter Lake QC’s financial status in not properly presented in the Asset Advisory’s documents.  I want to explain why the Asset Advisory document shows the camp running a deficit of approximately $1,700. The reason for the deficit showing is that no financial account(s) were set-up for the approved capital projects. This resulted in the expenses for the capital projects being put in operational financial accounts, resulting in a deficit. The Capital Projects’ expenses were supposed to come from Camp Otter Lake QC’s $30,000 dedicated projects savings.

On behalf of the Scout Camp Otter Lake QC Property Committee and the hundreds of persons who have encouraged me to respond, we formally request the Board of Governors and those involved in the decision-making process to remove Camp Otter Lake QC from the divestment list!

Sincerely,

I am available to answer questions and provide clarification.

Perry Schippers

Chair, Property Committee,

Camp Otter Lake QC,

Scouts Canada

Perry.Schippers@scouts.ca

613-612-1199

Ontario Asset Strategy - Scouts Canada Board of Governors Proposal

Ontario Asset Pipeline

Below is Camp Otter Lake QC's response to the Asset Advisory Committee's draft of the recommendation to the Board of Governors, and below is a link to the 

Request for Reconsideration: Divestment Recommendation for Camp Otter Lake QC.pdf

Attachment:  Camp Otter Lake QC OAP Data Correlations - SCOLQC 2025-07-01.xls

==================================================================================================

July 1st, 2025

Re: Request for Reconsideration: Divestment Recommendation for Camp Otter Lake QC

Scouts Canada

Camp Otter Lake QC

Property Committee

328 Rue Ryan, 

Gatineau, Québec

J8P 3B6

Perry.Schippers@scouts.ca

ScouterPerry01@gmail.com

T: 613-612-1199

To : The Board of Governors, Scouts Canada

Cc:  The Asset Advisory Committee Chair, The National Properties Key 3

Attachment: Ontario Asset Portfolio (Converted) 2025-06-24.xlxs

Dear Esteemed Members of the Board of Governors, 

Executive Summary

This Executive Summary provides a concise overview of the Camp Otter Lake QC Property Committee's detailed response to the 'Ontario Asset Strategy - Board Proposal Summary'. Our primary request to the Board of Governors is to remove Camp Otter Lake QC from the list of properties recommended for divestment. It is critical to emphasize that, based on our committee's financial records, Camp Otter Lake QC is not operating in a deficit and therefore, its divestment would not contribute to Scouts Canada's objective of reducing property-related financial burdens.

Core Arguments for Reconsideration:

1. Inaccuracies and missing data in the 'Ontario Asset Portfolio' Spreadsheet: 

2. Demonstrated Value and Viability:

   1. Consistent Profitability - over $44,000 in savings (now held centrally), generated through profitable operations;

   2. Misapplied Capital Expenses - incorrectly charged to operating budgets, skewing financial assessments; 

   3. Rich Program Offerings - including a Challenge Course, waterfront activities, target range and wilderness and survival skills training environment; 

   4. Strong Usage and Future Potential - increased demand expected post-electricity upgrade—currently stalled due to title issues; and 

   5. Volunteer-Driven Success - entirely volunteer-run for over 60 years, demonstrating cost-effective sustainability;

3. Formal Business Plan since 2011 - aligned with Scouts Canada’s broader vision.

Conclusion

Camp Otter Lake QC is a viable, profitable, and actively used asset that is vital to Scouting in the region. Its divestment would undermine volunteer efforts and eliminate a valuable resource without addressing the core deficit challenges. We respectfully urge the Board to reconsider the divestment decision (For further details, please refer to the main document.)

Please do not hesitate to contact the undersigned with any questions, concerns, or for clarification!

INDEPTH SUBSTANTIATED RESPONSE

On behalf of the Camp Otter Lake QC Property Committee, we are writing in response to the 'Ontario Asset Strategy - Board Proposal Summary' (referred to hereafter as "the Proposal"). We have thoroughly reviewed the Proposal and its supporting documents, including the 'Ontario Asset Portfolio' spreadsheet. Our objective with this letter is to respectfully request a comprehensive reconsideration of the recommendation to divest Camp Otter Lake QC. Specifically, we are asking the Board of Governors to remove Camp Otter Lake QC from the list of properties recommended for divestment. We firmly believe that the current inclusion of our beloved camp on the divestment list is based on inaccurate data and an incomplete understanding of its financial contributions, programmatic value, historical significance, and ongoing operational viability. It is crucial to note that, according to the property committee's financial records, Camp Otter Lake QC is not operating in a deficit; therefore, divesting this property will not contribute to addressing Scouts Canada's stated objective to reduce the sources of its deficit related to its properties.

Camp Otter Lake QC has been a cornerstone of Scouting experiences for over 60 years, sustained by unwavering volunteer dedication and significant community engagement. We acknowledge the overarching challenges facing Scouts Canada's property portfolio, yet we contend that Camp Otter Lake QC is not an underperforming or low-impact property. Instead, it represents a profound, yet largely untapped, opportunity for program innovation, conservation partnership, and sustainable redevelopment that aligns perfectly with Scouts Canada’s mission and guiding principles. 

1. Rectifying Inaccuracies in the 'Ontario Asset Portfolio' Spreadsheet
   We have identified several critical inaccuracies pertaining to Camp Otter Lake QC, as well as discrepancies regarding other properties, within the 'Ontario Asset Portfolio' spreadsheet (1.b. Ontario Asset Portfolio.pdf), which likely contributes to an erroneous assessment: 

   1. Consolidation Status (Camp Otter Lake QC): 

The spreadsheet incorrectly lists Camp Otter Lake QC as "Non-Consolidated". This is inaccurate. All finances for Camp Otter Lake QC are centrally held and meticulously controlled by the Scouts Canada National system under the National Properties Directorate. Therefore, the property is, in practice, fully consolidated. 

2. Acreage (Camp Otter Lake QC): 

The reported acreage for Camp Otter Lake QC is stated as 44 acres. This figure is incorrect; the actual acreage of Camp Otter Lake QC is 26 acres. This factual error impacts the overall assessment of the property's size and potential. 

3. Financial Information (NOI - Camp Otter Lake QC): 

The Net Operating Income (NOI) column for Camp Otter Lake QC is conspicuously blank, implying an unknown or negligible financial contribution. This is unacceptable, as all of Camp Otter Lake QC's funds are held and managed directly by the National Properties Directorate. There is no legitimate reason for this financial information to be absent, and its omission suggests a lack of transparency or oversight regarding our camp's financial performance. 

2. The True Value and Viability of Camp Otter Lake QC
   Beyond correcting factual errors, it is imperative to highlight Camp Otter Lake QC's robust operational and programmatic health: 

   1. Financial Status: 

      1. Long-standing Profitability: Camp Otter Lake QC has consistently been profitable since its initial acquisition by the Shawville Scout Group in the 1960s, a trend that has continued since its purchase in 1998. This consistent financial health underscores its sustainability. 

      2. Transferred Funds: When the National Properties Directorate was established, over $44,000 in funds previously held by the Voyageur Council specifically for Camp Otter Lake QC were transferred directly to Scouts Canada's national account under National Properties. 

      3. Misapplication of Capital Expenses: When recent capital projects were submitted for approval, it was under the explicit understanding that these transferred funds would cover the associated expenses. Regrettably, National Properties Finance did not utilize these designated funds for capital projects, instead applying the capital expenses against the camp's operating budget, artificially inflating perceived operational costs. 

   2. Program Offerings: 

Camp Otter Lake QC boasts a diverse and extensive array of program offerings that cater to a wide range of Scouting interests and age groups. These include activities aligned with various badge requirements, comprehensive wilderness and survival training, a variety of games, a challenging Challenge Course, a formal Target Range for Archery, Axe Throwing, Pellet Rifles, and Slingshots, and a vibrant waterfront program that includes swimming, canoeing, kayaking, sailboarding, and, commencing next year, sailing. This breadth of programming significantly enhances the Scouting experience. 

3. Camp Usage: 

   1. Consistent Past Reservations: The camp has historically maintained consistent user usage, sufficient to cover its operational expenses. Any recent perceived dip in regular bookings was directly attributable to disruptions caused by a couple of major capital projects and the extensive clean-up required after a significant storm. These were temporary setbacks, not indicators of declining interest or fundamental underperformance. 

   2. Promising Future Reservations: We have numerous renter groups eagerly awaiting the completion and connection of the electricity capital project to the facilities. These groups have expressed discomfort with the current propane system and are poised to increase reservations significantly once modern amenities are available, demonstrating clear pent-up demand. 

4. Summer Camp Program Development: 

The Camp Otter Lake QC Property Committee has actively pursued the establishment of a dedicated Summer Camp program for over five years. It is only in recent months that we have finally been connected with the appropriate staff person within Scouts Canada to collaboratively advance this crucial initiative. This demonstrates proactive efforts on our part, and the delay has been due to internal organizational hurdles, not a lack of commitment from the camp. 

5. Profound Impact on Scouting: 

Camp Otter Lake QC serves as a vital hub for numerous Scouts Canada Groups on the Quebec side of the Voyageur Council, as well as those situated in close proximity to the Ontario/Quebec border. Its potential divestment would have a profoundly detrimental impact on the programs offered to these youth, severely limiting their access to essential outdoor experiences and training. The assertion that "the Camp is not underperforming" is consistently reiterated by local Scouters. 

6. Mixed-Age Co-ed Camp: 

Notably, Camp Otter Lake QC has been operating as a co-ed, mixed-age camp since before Scouts Canada officially adopted a co-educational policy. This long-standing commitment to inclusivity highlights its progressive nature and adaptability within the Scouting movement. 

7. Volunteer-Driven Management and Maintenance: 

For over six decades, Camp Otter Lake QC has been managed and meticulously maintained solely by dedicated volunteers since its very creation in the 1960s. This extraordinary level of volunteer commitment represents an invaluable, consistent, and cost-effective operational model that significantly reduces financial burden on the national organization.

3. Concerns Regarding the Financial Strategy and the Ontario Divestment Proceeds Fund

We also wish to express our concerns regarding the proposed creation of the Ontario Divestment Proceeds Fund, while ostensibly for reinvestment, appears counter-indicative to directly addressing Scouts Canada's immediate fiscal shortfalls related to its Property Portfolio. We note that of the properties explicitly recommended for divestment in the Proposal (Green Bay, Legewade, Otter Lake (Quebec), Marwick, Mitchel, Mohawk, Shegardaynou, Charl'Bro, Kitchener Scout House, Peterborough Scout House), only four are explicitly shown to have a negative NOI in the 'Ontario Asset Portfolio.pdf' document (Kitchener Scout House: -$16,927.00; Charl-Bro: -$3,489.00; Legewade: $923.00 (profit); Mohawk: $0.00; Shegardaynou: -$6,981.00; Otter Lake Quebec: blank NOI, listed as non-consolidated which we dispute). The cumulative deficit of these four deficit-producing properties appears to be around $27,500, a minor fraction of the stated $1 million operating deficit. This suggests that the divestment of these specific properties, including Otter Lake QC, would have a negligible impact on the overall deficit.

4. Past, Present, and Future Vision for Camp Otter Lake QC
   The Camp Otter Lake QC Property Committee has a clear and evolving vision for our camp, deeply rooted in its founding principles while embracing the future of Scouting: 

   1. Respecting Founding Intent: The Spirit of Wilderness Scouting: 

While modernization is often necessary to meet current safety standards and co-ed accessibility requirements, it's important to recognize that the founding vision for Otter Lake Scout Camp was rooted in its wilderness character and rugged outdoor experience. The original founders did not envision Otter Lake Scout Camp as a modern, urbanized camp with high-density infrastructure or fully equipped indoor lodging. Instead, they saw its natural, remote setting as an essential part of the Scouting experience a place where youth could disconnect from modern distractions and immerse themselves in nature, challenge themselves physically and mentally, and develop core Scouting values like self-reliance, teamwork, and environmental stewardship. 

2. Balancing Modernization with Core Identity: 

Transforming the site into a more "modernized" offering complete with permanent facilities, infrastructure-heavy lodging, or significant land development risks diluting the very qualities that make Scout Camp Otter Lake QC unique. While some improvements (like modular cabins or modern washroom facilities) are aligned with evolving program needs, the overall character and wilderness experience should be preserved, not replaced. Our vision for the future integrates necessary upgrades to ensure safety, accessibility, and comfort, while always maintaining the wild, natural essence that defines Camp Otter Lake QC. 

3. Formal Business Plan and Strategic Alignment: 

Camp Otter Lake QC has had a formal Business Plan in place since 2011. The next iteration of this plan will be meticulously developed to integrate Scouts Canada’s overarching vision for its properties, ensuring strategic alignment, while rigorously respecting the original intent and enduring spirit of the Camp’s founders. This plan will outline sustainable operational models, strategic program enhancements, and phased infrastructure development that upholds our unique identity.

5. A Path Forward for Camp Otter Lake QC
   We propose an alternate path forward for Camp Otter Lake QC that aligns with Scouts Canada’s mission and principles, while preserving this cherished asset: 

   1. Removal From Divestment List: 

We respectfully request the removal of Camp Otter Lake QC from the divestment list.

2. Program Expansion and Revenue Generation: 

We will continue to proactively investigate weekday and shoulder-season programs, leveraging our dedicated volunteers and exploring partnerships to maximize off-peak usage and generate additional revenue. We will prioritize Scouting-exclusive programming during peak weekends. 

3. Targeted Infrastructure Improvements: 

We are open to the modular investment model idea proposed in the Strategy (e.g., prefabricated washhouses, solar facilities, low-maintenance cabins) to address infrastructure needs efficiently and cost-effectively, engaging Scouters in a co-design process. 

4. Local Capital Campaign and Funding: 

We are prepared to develop a "Friends of Otter Lake" fundraising committee. We will continue to pursue grants and partnerships with local conservation, recreation, and education-focused foundations, and explore provincial funding opportunities for non-profits. 

Conclusion 

Camp Otter Lake QC is more than just a parcel of land; it is a vibrant, volunteer-driven hub of Scouting activity with a rich history and immense future potential. Its proposed divestment, based on what we believe are inaccurate financial depictions and a misunderstanding of its operational contributions, would not only undermine the goodwill of dedicated volunteers and members but also extinguish a unique, cost-effective opportunity for program innovation and renewal in a critical geographic region. 

We are not requesting Scouts Canada to divert significant resources, but rather for the opportunity to continue to invest our own efforts and locally secured funds, in alignment with national priorities and under proper governance. 

We respectfully urge the Board to remove Camp Otter Lake QC from the divestment list and allow the Camp Otter Lake QC Property Committee to demonstrate how our camp can continue to thrive and contribute positively to Scouts Canada’s objectives. We are confident that with this opportunity, Camp Otter Lake QC will continue to prove to be a mission-aligned opportunity, not a liability.

Sincerely,

On behalf of the Camp Otter Lake QC Property Committee

I am available to answer questions and provide clarification.

Perry Schippers

Chair, Property Committee,

Camp Otter Lake QC,

Scouts Canada

Perry.Schippers@scouts.ca

613-612-1199

The following is the email received from the Chair of the Asset Advisory Committee, Christopher Blais, and here are links to the two (2) attachments sent with the email:

Ontario Asset Portfolio.pdf

Ontario Asset Strategy BoG Draft.pdf

=================================================================

From: Christopher Blais <christopher.blais@scouts.ca>

Date: Mon, Jun 23, 2025 at 3:55 PM

Subject: Request for Feedback: Draft Phase 3 Board Proposal

To: Christopher Blais <christopher.blais@scouts.ca>

Cc: Chris Wick <chris.wick@scouts.ca>, Kevin Anyan <kevin.anyan@scouts.ca>

Dear Camp Committee Members,

As part of our continued efforts to build a more sustainable and mission-aligned camp experience across Ontario, I’m sharing the draft Phase 3 Board proposal for the Ontario property portfolio. These recommendations are grounded in the extensive stakeholder input and analysis conducted during Phases 1 and 2 of the Scouts Canada Decision-Making Framework.

Your feedback is critical at this stage. While we understand that you may not agree with every recommendation, all feedback—whether supportive or not—will be transparently shared with the Board of Governors.

Please review the attached proposal and send your feedback to me by 9:00 AM on Wednesday, July 2, 2025. Feedback can be submitted in writing via email.

Thank you, as always, for your ongoing leadership and commitment to strengthening Scouting in Ontario.

Warm regards,

Chris

Christopher Blais

Director, Asset Strategy/Directeur, Stratégie des Actifs

Scouts Canada

Register | Volunteer | Donate | Corporate Sponsorship

See the following link: 

colliers-asset-comparison-ontario (1).pdf

Here are the Scout Camp Otter Lake QC's Business Plans

SCOLQC Business Plan for 2019 to 2024

SCOLQC Business Plan for 2024 to 2029 (Draft v5)